At what point do we make it socially unacceptable to keep using Facebook? What does Facebook have to do for that to happen? It feels like we just keep making more excuses: "I only use Facebook2[Instagram]", "Facebook is friends with all of my friends and I'll be socially isolated", "I'm monetarily dependent on Facebook", "Sure facebook knows they are harming me, but they also do X that I like".

We are all in an abusive relationship. What will it take to walk away?

@polymerwitch The last five or so have proven that there is literally nothing that Facebook could do which would make it socially unacceptable. Bigger than any nation state, Facebook is like the out of control process created by the sorcerer's apprentice.

@polymerwitch i think there needs to be a massive shift away from reliance on the internet for community and connection. this may be thru some kind of shutdown (either of fb servers, or of internet service grids) because fb has ensured that they have a monopoly on public group organizing and passive relationship connections. there is nothing to shift to, it always extinguishes its potential competition.

@polymerwitch Honestly, I think all it will take is for people to decide how many of their hundreds of "friends" they actually give a shit about keeping up with and convincing those few to jump ship, too. That is really the most challenging part...

@polymerwitch I can't really say when other people will get on board but I have been flatly refusing to use Facebook connected services and the social stigma against that has definitely dropped. its gone from making out that I am the asshole for refusing to admitting that I am probably right but making excuses for why they won't delete Facebook. some people are even joining me when I provide them with alternative services.

@polymerwitch I pretty much made my peace with the fact that the way "normal" people make decisions about what software to use will always be completely incomprehensible to me

@polymerwitch One thing I've learned in all my years studying persuasion is that different people need different reasons. There isn't a one way to convince everyone. It will need to be tailored to each person based on these steps:

Reduce reactance (people don't like being told what to do)
Ease endowment (focus on the costs of inaction rather than why they should take action)
Shrink distance (people rarely if ever make sudden big changes. "baby steps" and "meeting in the middle" is the best way to start)
Alleviate uncertainty (people fear change)
Find corroborating evidence (it's only after someone has emotionally started to change their mind that you can come from logic with evidence that supports your stance...don't start with this. it's at the end for a reason)

@g @polymerwitch

The baby steps one is important. I’ve managed to stop posting even though I still use the chat function.

Reducing use of the internet will unfortunately hurt disabled people (homebound disabled people especially), and poor people in long distance friendships, but hopefully people will come up with workarounds for that.

@winter @polymerwitch yeah the list is actually from the book Contagious by Jonah Berger which I highly recommend as like a beginner course for persuasion.

@winter @polymerwitch sorry it’s “The Catalyst” by Jonah Berger not “Contagious.” That’s a different book same guy

@polymerwitch that's iffy to with the capture via other services. Reels hasn't been a real competitor to TikTok but if Facebook bought TikTok that'd give them at least one more generation of relevance.

@polymerwitch it may take a targeted take down of their entire network. Purging what data and connections currently exist

@polymerwitch even then if they have unaffected backups that still might be enough. It would shake confidence but the restoration from backup and shift of blame to the attacker might even entrench the user base. You may have to start a global revolution to take down Facebook at this point. I wish this was hyperbole.

@polymerwitch yay Facebook has done awful things but so has the united States and I still live here.

@polymerwitch I don't think it's fair to view usage of Facebook as tacit approval of their methods. They've engineered the system to keep you present even if you don't wish to be.

@polymerwitch In my case, financial independence. I can't move my art on the Fedi at a rate that even pays my shop fees, much less my bills. Or we could just burn down capitalism entirely and FB would die in the process and I wouldn't have the financial pressure I do now.

@WanderingBeekeeper Well, I know FB deliberately restricts the reach of businesses that use its platform so that they are encouraged to pay for advertising. And I know left wing commentators get some of their posts shadow banned.

It seems to me that for content providers FB gives just enough monetary reward, but not too much to allow full independence.

But what I don't understand is that you can use more than one platform. No one has to severe the tie with FB straight away.


@lydiaconwell @polymerwitch I understand how the algorithm works, which is why I led off my new page with a series of Bodega Cats reposts, to get ljkes and interaction. I'm also working on Twitter, where I'm autoposting 4x/day and retweeting all my maille posts to get them into the algorithm. What it comes down to is this: I have to make a living within capitalist systems because leftist systems are not yet developed sufficiently for support. I'm working on that too, but it don't pay the bills.

@polymerwitch I think the only real thing to do is logout, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Having to use the extra muscle to log back in may deter users. My current usage means I log in post a link to my blog or flickr stream and leave. Also using the browser extension Tapermonkey makes FB look and behave in ways that discourage its use, see, Ben Crosser's site I'm convinced that it would take Facebook going against "Woke" culture to get people to stop using it.

@polymerwitch we need to fix the rest of Internet to work for normal people. Just think of how many pain points Facebook actually solves: not having to login into every other site, no need to figure out which particular site to use for discussions, sharing pics, organizing meetings. Plus, semblance of some "grown up" oversight against spamers and rule-breakers. Sure, it's morally corrupt, but from a purely selfish POV the big Internet is just too hard.

@polymerwitch us, techies, dropped the ball on the technological side of things. There's no working federated identity solution, no reputation building protocols, discovery of everything sucks, etc. We made Internet work for ourselves and stopped. Then Facebook came and ate our lunch. Now for many, many people Facebook is Internet.

@polymerwitch I recall hearing in a program on FB governance that the number of daily users of Facebook exceeds the citizenship of a small-medium sized company. Not necessarily the case that you can't move all those people, but that's a lot of inertia

@polymerwitch Laws changing that drive Facebook into the dirt next time they get caught being stupid.

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