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gnu software opinion 

I was looking at a release of a Mozilla clone that is gnu. "Cool", I thought, "I can get rid of the proprietary blobs and telemetry." Reading further though it also blocks the installation of third-party plugins. And that's my problem with a lot of gnu software. It doesn't trust me to make good decisions and structurally enforces a set of values and ethics. I often agree with those values and ethics, but I don't need an authority strictly enforcing them for me.

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gnu software opinion 

Other hot take on GNU:

It doesn't prevent code from being used by corporations. They will just do it anyway. The legal system doesn't work for the masses it works for the rich. You stop corporations not by cleverly working around their property laws.

You do it by fighting capitalism. How many anti-capitalist successes can really be attributed to GNU software?

gnu software opinion 

@polymerwitch I think the main way to frustrate corporations is to move away from creating systems which are fixated upon scalability and to embrace the small tech approach. That way the source code can be out there, and they can ignore the licenses as much as they want, but the things we produce won't be highly useful to them without them needing to do a lot of re-engineering.

So we could keep copyleft, but also adopt other tactics to get to a better situation than today.

gnu software opinion 

@bob yes, I agree. I want to see more user freedoms. Free software certainly plays a role in that. I just don't think it alone is enough.

gnu software opinion 

@bob @polymerwitch if we use a Copyleft license, there's always the major risk for big corporates that another big corporation or a gov't (e.g. the EU) will decide they've engaged in illegal exploitation and will do what most individuals and communities cant: enforce. But also, I think that FOSS communities should be organisating to ensure that folks like the FSLC have sufficient resources to hold big business to account.

gnu software opinion 

@bob @polymerwitch The lawsuit is never as important as the bad publicity a corporation gets for exploiting a little person and getting caught doing it.

re: gnu software opinion 

@lightweight @polymerwitch > can't enforce

just use the DMCA ?_?

re: gnu software opinion 

@io @polymerwitch can't enforce? Maybe individuals cannot enforce, but a collective of FOSS communities could - that's what the SFLC is all about... (sorry, I mistyped their acronym previously - see softwarefreedom.org/ )

re: gnu software opinion 

@lightweight @polymerwitch but individuals can enforce it with the DMCA so i'm confused by your post

re: gnu software opinion 

@io @polymerwitch I believe (from my vantage point here in NZ where, thankfully, our gov't isn't run by corporate interests who shoved DMCA down the US' throat) that you need to have a LOT of $ to take DMCA action against anyone. Individuals can't realistically afford to do invoke it against $trillion corporations like Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, or Google...

re: gnu software opinion 

@lightweight @polymerwitch ah yeah you're right, because they will counter-claim, at which point the content will be restored and the complainant will have to litigate

we really need a small claims court in more places if we're not going to abolish copyright altogether

re: gnu software opinion 

@io @lightweight @polymerwitch the FSF has won some cases on behalf of communities.

re: gnu software opinion 

@icedquinn @lightweight @polymerwitch yes, so has the EFF (youtube-dl most recently)

re: gnu software opinion 

@io @lightweight @polymerwitch biggest problem you're going to have is china is going to do it and just go fuck you we don't have to obey laws.

which is basically what they're all doing like onyx boox is just overtly violating the license and telling people who complain about it lol owned
@icedquinn @lightweight @polymerwitch is that an ereader? i'm assuming they're not publishing their linux patches?
@io @lightweight @polymerwitch correct.

i saw people debate what recourse exists if corpos can use the "fuck you i'm chinese" defense, and its basically "none unless you can sue the state department to issue embargos"

re: gnu software opinion 

@lightweight @polymerwitch grrr why tf does my instance not federate with epicyon!! pleroma bad >:(

gnu software opinion 

@polymerwitch this is my biggest pet peeve about copyleft arguments. the idea that "I license my code as [A]GPL so corporations won't use it!" is naive at best. it might cause some corps to think twice, but if a piece of software is desirable enough they will either flagrantly disregard the license and use it anyway, or use it as the basis of their own code in order to try and get around the "derivative work" stipulation

gnu software opinion 

@balrogboogie @polymerwitch

in this regard, I think what Chistine Lemmer Webber is doing is relevant

We could try to concentrate _data_ in the availability of individuals (control granted to them through criptografy)

If we had enough data outside of the control of corporations and in the control of a multitude of individuals, the point of abusing licenses would be less important

gnu software opinion 

@balrogboogie @polymerwitch

I like to think of this approach os of one for "substantial freedom"

The narrow focus on licenses is obviously not enough

There are more facets to the substantiality of freedom, but I won't go into those here

gnu software opinion 

@polymerwitch In practice, copyleft is a popular choice for commercial entities who go for the “open core” model. Copyleft allows for publishing a full-featured proprietary variant of the open core while ensuring the competition cannot do the same thing.

re: gnu software opinion 

@polymerwitch independent from the discussion about GNU here: if you’re referring to GNU IceCat, it doesn’t block the usual addons (or at least not the ones I installed on mine), though it does make them a bit harder to find (since the default link to mozilla’s addon page is replaced by one to an fsf list of addons).

Generally that’s kinda the case with most GNU things: I never got the impression that its “an authority strictly enforcing […]” in the sense that it’s actually made hard or impossible on the technical side of things, but nonfree things certainly won’t be in the manual, nor mentioned on the mailing list — non-GNU stuff exists (even in coordinated form, e.g. the nonguix repo for guix software packages), but as an off-channel thing, and people value keeping the official channels free from things that don’t fit GNU’s definition of freedom.

Apart from that IceCat is its own bag of weirdness, from LibreJS (which takes what one may call the “fetishisation of licenses” to previously entirely unimaginable levels) to the weird choice to preinstall an extension that can do USPS (and only USPS) shipping cost calculations because their website breaks with LibreJS, because … browsers are international i guess? (no such addons installed for literally anything else that’s broken).

So mostly the choice between firefox and icecat is a bit of “okay, which default weird stuff do I want to deactivate today”? (or just “which one is in the package repository?”)

gnu software opinion 

@polymerwitch I have these same complaints (and therefore never use GNU on my own stuff), but furthermore it tries so hard to stop big corporations from doing bad things that it penalizes me as a small developer trying to do things in good faith. Want to use a GNU dependency in your <non-GPL-compatible-license> software? You're screwed and have to change the license if you even want to or can. Meanwhile, big company will just steal it anyways because no one can afford to sue.

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